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Correct m if I am wrong but wouldn’t putting a second rotor on the axle then change the center flex of the axle. Thus making people buy softer or different rebounding axles?
Doug, step in here if you would. You are the expert on chassis setup and axles. Would you agree or disagree?
I am just saying that everything you do to change the kart is going to cost you money. If you do not carry 3 or 4 different axles and change them as the track changes throughout the weekend then you are not doing everything to get the maximum out of your chassis.
There is a reason that shifters run front brakes. Safety. I have been in a shifter a few times that either the fronts or rears fail. You can not stop. ASK AJ Noud about rear brake failure at a test in California (Moran). He hit turn one at over 85 miles an hour, flipped over the fence, and landed on the hay bails. NOT PRETTY.
Now with that said about shifters, I see horse power increases every year on TAG engines. Brad, would you agree that the power of 2007 tags are better then 1997 engines?
Then, look at the weight ran 10 years ago compared to now. Karting has evolved into a sport that is attracting an older crowd of drivers. With age sometimes comes more weight. God knows I am a bit heavier then I was at 16 years old. At 16 I was 4’10 and wrestled the 98 # weight class. I eat more then 98# in a day now.
I am not an engineer. In fact, I am not educated. I was kicked out of the school district before I could graduate. But I do know that more power + more weight = more inertia. (SP?)
I also know that you will never make everyone happy. Every decision that is made will make some happy and piss off others. This is motorsports. If you think front brakes will make you faster then pony up and buy them. In fact, we used to take the fronts off of some of our 125 chassis for heavier tag guys. I have about 15 complete sets sitting in a box. I would be willing to sell complete sets cheap cheap. This will help anyone that thinks they will go faster with them.
The point has been said over and over here. If you are fast without front brakes you will be fast with them. If you ran up front last year you will be in the same boat this year. If you were a back marker last year, you should be testing and getting driver and chassis together and improve this year and not worry about adding things to your kart to go faster.
I have a test for you. Go out and run 25 laps straight. If you can do these laps as hard as you can and your times are within 1 to 1.5 tenths of each other from start to finish, then you are ready to worry about more engine, front brakes, nitrous, studded snow tires, blinker fluid, whatever. But, if you can not consistently run within a tenth EVERY LAP, work on your kart and driving then get back on here and protest front brakes.
I hope this comes off the way I am hoping. I am not trying to stir up anything rather point out that there are more ways of getting faster without spending more money at this point. I promise you, every karter in the world, Kyle Ray, Alan Rudolph, Greg Welch, David Fore, etc etc will be faster this year then they were last. Because they test, make changes, and perfect their skills. This is what makes champions. Not more HP or front brakes.
Gotta go make money now so I can buy new front brakes for the year.
RB
@RBI wrote:
ASK AJ Noud about rear brake failure at a test in California (Moran). He hit turn one at over 85 miles an hour, flipped over the fence, and landed on the hay bails. NOT PRETTY.
So THAT’S what happened to AJ! 😆
All kidding aside and it’s been said time and time again. If you test and tune you’ll be fast if done properly. Front Brakes isn’t this year’s “magic bullet” to be faster. But I would like to hear DOUG WELCH’S 10 cents as to a heat sink on the axle… Welch??? Welch???
RB is right on this one. Puting a rotor in the center of the kart does affect a lot of things, including the flex. Many tuners use stiffeners in the center as a way to move the flex to the outside of the bearings.
The bearing acts as a fulcrum point. As the axle flexes upwards under cornering, the center part flexes downward. This is how our Pro axle works, thicker in the center, thinner outboard of the bearings.
But there is another problem with putting a rotor in the center. It too involves axle flex but what happens is the flex distorts the rotating plane in which the rotor spins. Yet the caliper is fixed. So what will happen is the rotor will rub on one of the brake pads creating drag. That is the main reason the caliper is moved so close to the cassette. The farther you mount the rotor away from the fulcrum point, (bearing), the farther you have to retract the pads to prevent rubbing. This greatly increases the pedal travel you need.
Mike wants to know about the heat sink. I’m not sure how valuable they are. I’ve used them, they do seem to reduce heat. But a better solution maybe to just better maintain the brakes.
I found out some interesting info in the past week. Dot 4 and 5 oils do have higher boiling points that Dot 3. However, they also expand more at a given temp than Dot 3. We also use steel brake lines that do not expand when pressure is applied. This creates problems in kart brakes.
If you fill the resevouir to the top, there is no place for the hot oil to expand in to and it causes the brakes to drag. Also, most Euro brakes are not designed to use silicone based fluids and that causes the seals to expand, creating more drag. The best solution is to use a quality Dot 3 and change it out regularly.
thanks Doug, you da man. Great Info
Oh and by the way, i think you’re the William Macy part in Wild Hogs… I’ll let you know if I still feel that way Saturday…
@edupin wrote:
:monkey
:driver :! :redcar :censored :bang :peace
Eduardo, are you and the rest of the International Brokers team coming out to practice on Sunday?
If not..perhaps you are afraid of my DOMINATOR kart? I had a great time racing with your team last time out.
Kirk
(can you guys tell this is a slow day at work?)
@Kirk_Deason wrote:
@edupin wrote:
:monkey
:driver :! :redcar :censored :bang :peace
Eduardo, are you and the rest of the International Brokers team coming out to practice on Sunday?
If not..perhaps you are afraid of my DOMINATOR kart? I had a great time racing with your team last time out.
Kirk
(can you guys tell this is a slow day at work?)
Dustin and I are coming out to rub wheels with ya Kirk….get ready :rotate:
Dustin and I are coming out to rub wheels with ya Kirk….get ready
Pssshaw…you better bring your A-Game, I’ll be rocking the DOMINATOR. Sunday, right? That will be a blast.
For those who don’t know, I am driving Chuck’s old Easykart. And now I’m going to embarrass him in his new slotax kart. :cheers:
Kirk_Deason Posted: Fri 03 2, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Dustin and I are coming out to rub wheels with ya Kirk….get readyPssshaw…you better bring your A-Game, I’ll be rocking the DOMINATOR. Sunday, right? That will be a blast.
For those who don’t know, I am driving Chuck’s old Easykart. And now I’m going to embarrass him in his new slotax kart.
Sounds like the gloves are off! :argue
Kirk,
If you want to see the Dominator rock, strap Dustin in for a few laps. :cheers:
Actually I may ask him to drive mine for a few laps so i can see what the KART is capable of and how far the Dominator Driver has to go to reach ‘par’. Once he smashes my fast-lap by 4 seconds, I’ll then start screaming that I need front brakes..that HAS to be the reason I’m slow! 😥
I know he’s good. Never met him though.
I’ve still got about 20lbs of Centennial mud to clean off the kart from the last geo-sampling mission. I’m psyched.
Kirk_Deason Posted:
I’ve still got about 20lbs of Centennial mud to clean off the kart from the last geo-sampling mission. I’m psyched.If you plan on any more geo-sampling, you should put your kart stand tires on the old Dominator before you go out.
Also Mike Jansen may have some helpfull hints on removing large amounts of mud from your kart! 😆
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