Karter meeting following the banquet

[stacey cook]

“Quote”

I think the track owners should listen to the customers. Not to revamp the whole damn thing

, just to make customers happy and to keep them coming back. Stop this “average karter stays in the sport for 2 years”, or whatever it is. Seems to me some of the series that are having success (Gatorz, Prokart) are listening to their customers, at least to a degree, and not having the track owners decide the future behind closed doors.

I don’t think it should kiss everyones a$$ or try to cater to every whim. But if there are racers who have constructive input and aren’t heard, they may loose interest and choose another series or just give up altogether. Shame for the benevolent dictator then. this is not F1. It’s easy to say you want one. It’s also easy to gripe later about it. It’s even easier to offer no constructive input on what was once a series heading towards being one of the best in the country. It still could be.

Sorry about all the spelling errors. My spell check is off again. Where’s Roman?

Rick
Rick Schmidt

Rick,

We totally agree… The racers are our customers and if we don’t listen we will eventually die and fade away.. Racers you need to be at the meeting and we all do what is best for the series and future of Karting in Colorado whatever that might be. If your not then don’t complain when it is not what you want..

I think the 2 race weekend has some possibilities and we would really consider it …however the talk is only racing at GJMS, TTAC and IMI however we all keep ignoring JB and how Bandimere fits in… I know there is talk of not including him but I think everyone should remember that JB was one of the people that got the CSC going and we should get his input and opinion before we make any decsisons about racing or not racing there.. That would give us 4 weekends, 8 races with 1 drop….

Also a Title sponsor is desperatly needed for the CSC, if we are going to ever be a legitimate series we have to have one…

Classes: Same as 2007 however DD2 Light and Heavy should be in somewhere.. also Kid Kart and JR1 we really like and think the Comers should be an option in 2008… Brad has spent his money and lots of time and it is greatly appreciated but it seems like the vast majority are still running the comers…

Let the bashing begin..

Posts: 446
Joined: Thu 03 1, 2007 1:36 pm
Private message

[Ron Rudolph]

Here’s a thought.
How about adding Miller Motorsports Park ?
Ok I know CSC = Colorado Sprint Championship, but would it be cool to have the CSC make a stop in Utah…….. :cheers:
Just a thought……….

Ron Rudolph : Father of
Travis( 125 shifter), Ryan (Mini max), Ryleigh (JR1)

[Rick Schmidt]

Post by stacey cook on Thu 12 13, 2007 6:56 pm

I think the 2 race weekend has some possibilities and we would really consider it …however the talk is only racing at GJMS, TTAC and IMI however we all keep ignoring JB and how Bandimere fits in… I know there is talk of not including him but I think everyone should remember that JB was one of the people that got the CSC going and we should get his input and opinion before we make any decsisons about racing or not racing there.. That would give us 4 weekends, 8 races with 1 drop….

Stacey,
Does Jb want to run in the Csc? I was under the impression he was doing much better on rentals! If I’m mistaken, I apologize. I was left with this feeling by a comment he made after the last Csc race there. We would be willing to run with him. The track is rough and very hard on equipment (we bent 2 Gp-8 spindle bolts there without contact, and Roman does not use the curbs!) What we would not tolerate again is; sharing the practice day before the race with rentals. If he can’t go for a day without them, we would choose not to race there again. Csc or not. How bout one there and one at Miller. Miller can’t be the Drop? This is a regional series?

Also a Title sponsor is desperatly needed for the CSC, if we are going to ever be a legitimate series we have to have one…

Classes: Same as 2007 however DD2 Light and Heavy should be in somewhere.. also Kid Kart and JR1 we really like and think the Comers should be an option in 2008… Brad has spent his money and lots of time and it is greatly appreciated but it seems like the vast majority are still running the comers…

If someone were to step up on the title sponsor, this thing could achieve greatness again.

Stacey, are you going to be part of the Mile High Rotax series? Sounds like they are looking at running a heavy class for the DD2.

Seems pretty sad to see the Jr-1 and Kid Karts so fragmented. This could be a huge class, but it’s not. But I won’t comment further, due to not having a dog in this fight. There are others that do not have a dog in this fight spouting off so I’ll refrain.

Rick

[stacey cook]

Rick,

I have not talked to JB, But I am not comfortable assuming he wants out without hearing it from him… I sure understand the dilema of it being rough on karts we had our fair share of damage there also without getting on the curbs.. Maybe JB will make some changes for 08′

I am not opposed to Miller being a possibility if it will make the series stronger…

We are undecided on the Rotax program, sold a pretty fair amount of Leopards in 07′ without all the politics.. We will make a decision on the Rotax series soon but are all for the DD2 program.. they are jsut awesome and a blast to drive..

As for the kids karts and Jr 1’s I to hate to see it so fragmented and would really love to have the 30+ members at our track in 08″.. We had alot of resistance from our locals on the Honda program and ended up running Comers and had a great season.. The JR 1 Honda just got way to fast, running Mini Max times at several races.. I think we need to give the option to run the Comer again in 08′ in both Kid karts and Jr1 but slow down the Honda to Comer 80 times… Again that is “if” the majority feel that this is the way to go..

[Anonymous]

I have three dogs in the Kid Kart and Jr 1 fight so I am happy to spout off.

There is nothing stopping the Kid Karters from running the CSC with us. The entry fee covers the cost of an engine to run for the day. This engine comes from the same pool us “regulars” use. There is no advantage to own an engine in the CSC because you can’t use the thing. I honestly do not understand why they do not run with us in the CSC. We would have happily raced their premier event in Littleton if we could have had access to a motor that was equal to everyone’s else’s for either no extra cost. I would have had no problem paying to rent one of their motors IF, and it is a big IF, there was reasonable assurances that we would have an equal shot at running competitively. We raced a few races in 2006 with the Comers and got blown away. One week later, we show up for a CSC event, pay our money, get our sealed, spec Honda and voila’, we take the pole. ONE WEEK after almost getting lapped with our stock Comer that came with our kart. Tell me with a straight face that doesn’t make you scratch your head???? The sealed Honda program works. We just need consistant, stringent, technical inspection, and real penalties to discourage anyone from doing things unsportsmanlike.

Maybe someday we will want to run outside of Colorado. When that day comes, we will hook up with one of the builders to get a LEGAL and competitive Comer. Until then, the Honda gives us a ton of fun because we know that at least in theory, any day could be our day.

Brad said he is going to slow the Jr 1’s down. Add some real and consistent tech inspection and that class is perfect. I also know that most of you will be shocked to see how many Jr 1 Honda’s will be out there next year. We raced against some very good Kid Karters this year and most of them are moving up to Jr 1 Honda.

We can’t wait for the year to start.

[FTK51]

You guys sure are talking about us a lot……

In my opinion, there are 10 things that make a great series.

1. Competitors
2. Fun
3. Fair and consistent officiating.
4. Competitors
5. Fun.
6. Great tracks.
7. Competitors.
8. Fun.
9. Something to shoot for.
10. Competitors.

You guys have it all, you just need to develop a plan and work that plan.

You keep bringing up my series, but I have it easier than you guys. GATORZ is my deal. I am a benevolent dictator and I am the only one. You have 3-4 track owners that all have a say in the deal. That is a much bigger challenge.

Here is my take on what you need. Take it or leave it, its just the opinion of one guy that has been around the block a few times, just not every time.

1. You need to have the same Race Director and Tech Director. Fair and consistent officiating is on my list. Nobody likes to go to a track and feel like they got “homer’ed”. Even if it doesn’t happen, someone will always feel like they got the shaft because they were on the wrong chassis, or the wrong shop, etc. I hire enough staff so I do not have a duty on race day. I have a radio, but I do not make decisions. I break ties. You have Angie as your Scoring Director, I believe, with her and the other two permanent staff members, you can run a race day with different people at each track. The 3 of them are in charge at every race. If the track owners feel that it is cost prohibitive, raise entry fees by $10. People are happy to pay a little more to get a better value. Fair and consistent officiating is a much better value.

2. You need to make up a committee that decides the path of the series. If you have 4 tracks, use the owners as the basis for the committee. If 3 only want to be involved, then make it 3. If Rotax is in the series, include Doug. Make Angie the secretary if she wants the job and pay her for it. She can have a vote or not, its up to you. Have the drivers pick one guy as the “drivers rep”. There is no perfect person, but someone like Charles Gordon comes to mind. Sorry, he is just someone I know. If he doesn’t want to do it, have the drivers pick someone they trust to present their issues. The committee needs to have 5-7 people, an odd number so there can be no ties on things. Their vote is binding, no drivers boycotts, strikes or track lockouts can happen if the vote doesn’t go a certain way.

3. You need to remember that we all spend our hard earned money to go have fun. When we stop having fun, we stop doing it. Make sure that it is fun most of the time. Racing isn’t fun all the time, but the ratio has to be the right way at the end of the day.

4. As I said before, people will always pay a little more for a better value. I charge a little more for entries, etc. but I hand out good prizes. Ask the drivers if they would rather pay $X and race for trophies or pay $X+$20 and have better officiating and some good prizes.

5. Schedule your Grand Junction round so it doesn’t conflict with a GATORZ or PKC race and I’ll bring half a dozen people.

6. If you do #5 and we come up, you had better come down and race a GATORZ race or two, Ian and I came up there 3 times this year!

If I got it all wrong, I’m sorry. I’m just trying to help because I love our sport.

A

[Joe Rosse]

We like the idea of 2-race weekends–gives more flexibility for both racers and clubs. Also like the idea of a drop; Pat broke his arm after the first race and our season was pretty much over in terms of the championship. OTOH, I don’t see the point of double-point races–too much to lose if something goes wrong. Why should any one race be worth double?

Also need to think about the TaG Jr class. Unless everyone wants it to become a Leopard only class, there needs to be an adjustment to Rotax weights. Rotax simply isn’t competitive against the Leopard in junior configuration, even on Rotax-friendly tracks. Also need to figure out what to do with the Vampire in junior configuration.

The issue with Bandi isn’t JB–it’s the track. We cut our teeth there years ago, and the technical nature of the track really teaches technique, but it’s just too tough on equipment. And anyone who can afford to trash their chassis is going to have a huge advantage over those with more modest budgets.

[Curt Kistler]

We have no dog in any of this per my comments a few months ago about moving on, but I still have the passion. AJ has been pretty quiet in this thread so far and I got the opportunity to talk with him last week about a few things. One of his thoughts I really liked was to open the tire rule up to three manufactures. This will lower the price of rubber and possibly bring in a title sponsor. Once MG comes to grip with the fact that they are not the only game in town they may buck up. Open the fuel up to Sonoco or VP, or hell, give Shell a piece of the action. Fuel will not make a bit of difference in the CSC. The fast guys will still win and tech will be what it has always been, sparse. Open the oil mix up as well. Make these support manufactures step up if they want the CSC business. MG did me no favors in the past 3 years other than cost us a championship at IMI, so why would I want to support them if we were racing karts in ’08?
Just some thoughts for moving forward folks. Mr. A from GATORZ is spot on with the CSC staff. It really needs a backbone in a very bad way. It needs consistant decisions, scoring, tech, flagging, scales, drops or no drops, rain or no rain, hard line rules on colored number plates in mixed classes, hard core rules on dropped classes with less than 8 – 10….. I could go on all morning but I wont.
Good luck in piling into a room on Sunday morning with no plan to figure it all out. Been there, done that. Got blistered tires and a 15 hour day out of that approach. See you all tomorrow night.

[Doug Welch]

I have raced at with Andy in his Gatorz series. I can tell you it was one of the best, if not the best regional series that I’ve been to. It was every bit as good as many national races I’ve been to. The competition is VERY strong, tech is outstanding and it is run on the clock.

[cgordon]

Geez Andy, what did I ever do to you? 😮

I’d like to see 2 race CSC weekends. We’d get more racing for our bucks and it would make each CSC race more special, as it should be.

I’m glad Stacy mentioned DD2for the CSC. DD2 hasn’t been mentioned much on the forum lately, but I think there’s a lot of interest in DD2 Heavy for club and CSC racing. Adding DD2 classes to the CSC wouldn’t lengthen the day because they could run together with existing classes.

Speaking of sponsorship, when I was racing FV in the late 70s, we organized a successful sponsorship for our series by getting numerous local sponsors to put in $250 each and also found a couple of bigger sponsors (Goodyear, Simpson, etc) to kick in a little larger amount for year end prizes. We structured the payout so that each racer that paid the fee to join our series made back a little more than the membership fee. Because we were asking for a fairly small amount, we were able to attract a large number of sponsors and gave away $30,000 our first year. It worked so well that our plan was copied by other groups. Most of the sponsors were racing or automotive related. Also, we didn’t ask for cash (though we would accept it) but aksed for gift certiifcates which made it easier for sponsors to go along with it. The requirement of the racers was that they run the sponsor decals on their car.

Charles

[stacey cook]

Andy,

Thanks for the input.. you have been there and learned from mistakes to get you series to where its at.. CSC is a great series with alot of great people but we all want to make it better, alot of your comments are spot on and we will make sure the Grand Junction race is not on one of your dates so you can make it out… we will even throw in free entrys for you and Ian for making the trip out…

Fun is what it is all about.. We just need to all put our own interest aside and do what is the best for the health of the series and makes financial sense for the tracks.. it is a balance between the two that we all as a group need to achieve..

Mikey,

I think a title sponsor should be around $10,000 minimum… a good possibility would be to get a marketing person in place to chase sponsors and either work a percentange with them or it might even be someone within the CSC that could recieve free entrys, pit passes, etc in exhange for part time work… I have met Dave Liniger from Remax and like you said he is a motorhead…

Curt,

I understand you had problems with the MG’s this year but I have to say Wagner and Louis have been really good to us and are always there to support anything we do.. from donating tires for special awards to standing behind anything they sell.. They are some of the most honest straight forward people we have dealt with in the karting industry.. Maybe they would consider a sponsorship if it was presented right…

As for the Comers, we had a really great club series running the Comers this year and all of our locals have said they will not run next year in the CSC if they have to run the Honda, they will just go to the Kid Kart series and do the club events which I dont want to see.. I still think we need to give things another year to get it worked out But the Honda’s need to be slowed down.. way to fast..

[Brian Robson]

The cosictency of officials is KEY to this working. It will be beneficial for the racers (customers) so that they get fair, accurate and consistant officiating. It will also allow track owners/promotors focus on their business of selling parts, pit passes, dumping trash, etc… The TaG World finals was a good example. TaG USA handled the track and officiating, Brad and company did IMI business (and had a great BBQ and Beer on sat!) The track owners should all put a equal % of the race proceeds towards paying key officials and their travel/lodging exspense throughout the year. If not the Cooks will pay more money towards their race providing this at their events. (dueto the fact most of the community is on the front range)

The Sponsorship thing is real grey. Why isnt it the “MG Tire Colorado Sprint Championships”? Shouldnt MG be putting $10-$20 per set of tires per event towards the CSC prize fund? This will handle trophies, prizes, and part of the year end banquet expense. Wagner Rossi is very supportive of karting, especially here in Colorado. Dunlop (via Russell Karting) was the Title sponsor of the SIRA (Southern Indiana Racing Assoc.) I beleive they gave $5k over a two year contract. Not sure how it was justified in Russell’s marketing budget, but I know the members and competitors of the SIRA benefited.

Rick,

Thanks for the kind words. I am very passionate about this sport. Sometimes to a fault. At this point in my life I have no interest in officiating kart races. I had too much fun helping Louie and hanging out with friends. Plus, I have 2 girls, a wife, and a golden retreiver who deserve more time with me. I spent too many years with racing being my entire life. Once they hate seeing me around all the time, I’m sure I’ll be hot and heavy back into it. Might even drive. (if I can remember how)

I can go on and on but it’s not for me to decide. All I can say is this.

“Were not curing cancer, were racing Go-karts!”

Have Fun
Race Hard
Support your Local tracks and Shops

See ya when the snow melts! (unless you want to go boarding with me)

BR

[Mike Jansen]

Clarification:

Trophies down to 5 for kid karts only.

I LIKE the idea of a double race weekend like a SKUSA or STARS. I thought you were talking about spreading out a one race weekend to two days like up at Steamboat back in the day. 5-6 race weekends like that and I’m not thrilled. 2-3 weekends and I’d go for that.

Mikey’s way to pick an item teched is great. You never know what’s on the agenda and it keeps all compeditors on their toes. As for the kids, if parents want more tech then pay a slight increase because kid karts are provided engines….

Andy’s reiterating what I’ve said all along. If you want to manage by commitee just look at Chump car and there’s your answer. If you look at NAKKER and F1 they thrive because they have a person passionate about the sport and smart enough not to screw it up. Andy’s points are spot on, thanks for the input!

Drop, drop drop… Rick and Roman got bit. Just looking at them (and realizing we all do this for fun and that we have families that perhaps might want to see other family or other vacation ideas instead of racing) makes you realize how crucial a drop is. Speaking from when I was a kid racing bikes I always remember going away to England or Illinois to see Grandparents excited about that but bummed knowing I would never break top 10 due to being away for a few weekends.

[J.B. Olmstead]

To those of you who are suggesting Action Karting is out or wants out, I would like to set the record straight — So far none of the people pushing the idea of excluding us from the CSC, have not spoken to me about this subject.
As one of the founding fathers of the CSC, I would indeed like to be consulted and would like to know who is promoting the idea of kicking us off the race schedule — I am quite confident that none of the track owners are wanting us out — so those of you that do please identify yourselves.
My suggestion is to host two races this year , and make both of them DOUBLE POINTS.

J.B.

[Brad Linkus]

George was the one who wanted to replace you JB. :mic
I would be ok with 2 races at each track done in 1 weekend but not 8 race weekends. No double points though. 1 drop.

[Author]

Posts