colorado racing

[Les Prins]

@Greg Welch wrote:

I still remember 1997 pulling around 250 entrants for a club race.

Back then, what were the classes like? What was the most popular class for adults and Jr’s?

Just curious.

[RBI]

Mike Jansen. Your rib injury has not messed with your thinking. You are spot on.

Basically, Colorado karting is nothing more than this:

CSC is now the IMI series

RTR is now the Track series

and you have GJMS stuck in the middle wanting only to improve colorado karting and providing racing for both series. I along with a few others out there have been in karting since Skusa had a mountain region. I was just talking to a few of my friends who attended both initial rounds of each series and they said “Colorado karting has turned into a joke”. I hope I don’t offend anyone (theres a first) but the days of 20 125 pro shifters are gone.

Remember when the state final was held in Steamboat? That was soooooo much fun. We raced all the tracks all year and final at a neutral place.

The only solution to getting over the arguments and egos is to do the same thing that the majority of other series do. Form a group (like prokart challenge) and run a regional series. The same thing we did back in the day with SKUSA. Then, either rent the tracks or give a percentage of the earnings. Do you think Tom K owns the tracks that his series races at? Nope. And guess what? He pulls the racers.

Plus look at the poor shop owners. If your shop is close to track A and you decide to race series B, do you think testing and local racing will be an option in the future? No, because you supported the competition. So you then see a trickle down effect all the way to club level racing.

This is the most common two words at the race track lately: “Remember when?”

[Mike Urban]

Me again,

If things are compared to “remember when,” then remember when I could place 6th in The CSC TaG Masters race in
two of the “big field” events of yesteryear. That yesteryear was last year when only 6 karts entered the
two CSC races at TTAC. Sorry I missed the one at IMI, I could have taken a 5th. Mike, and the rest, don’t get me wrong, nothing
better than drinking beer together and solving the world’s problems, but this problem extends past
the “zoology” you speak of. Yes, one Regional Series for all may make the decision of where to race easier, but I think
the premise that this will increase entry size per class and improve the race experience is not backed by recent facts.

Mike

[Rick Schmidt]

Mike Urban
Posted: Wed 06 10, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: colorado racing
Me again,

If things are compared to “remember when,” then remember when I could place 6th in The CSC TaG Masters race in
two of the “big field” events of yesteryear. That yesteryear was last year when only 6 karts entered the
two CSC races at TTAC. Sorry I missed the one at IMI, I could have taken a 5th. Mike, and the rest, don’t get me wrong, nothing
better than drinking beer together and solving the world’s problems, but this problem extends past
the “zoology” you speak of. Yes, one Regional Series for all may make the decision of where to race easier, but I think
the premise that this will increase entry size per class and improve the race experience is not backed by recent facts.

Mike,

Maybe drinking beer and solving issues has not help the Colorado racer up to this point?

Richies post above is pretty darn accurate IMO.

You may not have started racing till last year and the last thing I want to do is make a customer angry. We absolutely thank you for your helmet business! Racing and family are certainly things to get passionate about though.

It has been a matter of regional hurting club racing or the other way around for the past several seasons here. Didn’t you race the combined series Imi / TTAC Club series last year in Tag Masters? The entries that actually ran resulted in a field average of over 21 karts. (before it was the Csc with the big numbers and Club racing was drying up) There is some data to indicate larger fields competing is possible if there is some continuity in the racing community. Even in this economy. At this point, I don’t care about the politics or who is doing what. It would just be nice to race against full fields and have the best drivers competing and sharing family time together. I do however feel the economy will keep the some of racers from running multiple classes and multiple series as they may have in the past.

It is not just me. There have been many racers who looked at the partially filled pits at both events and wondered why.

Thanks, Rick

[Curt Kistler]

The following is a post by Wayne MacGregor, look at the date it was posted.

Wayne was/is a karting dad, and his son Colin grew up right in front of all of us. Just like Roman, Greg, Jeff, Matt, Ben, Dale, Ronnie, David, Jesse, Cole, Kyle, and on, and on the list goes…… You know who you are, even if you choose to stay silent.

The reality is, karting really has not changed much in the 9 years my family has been around it. Obviously it has not changed much since September 19, 2003. There has always been problems of one kind or another throughout the years. My old friend Wayne, who I personally miss very much at the track, hit the nail right on the head as he posted this message on his way out of the sport. It was his way of making observations, and suggestions to us when he saw the end coming as they to moved onto other things in life. I hope all is well Wayne and Colin, and please come share a beer with all of us soon.

Bottom line folks, it’s just kart racing. Please do not get too wrapped up into what is going on with the political side of things. Unless you have a cool million stashed in your mattress, you need to live in the track owners world. It’s their track, their insurance and their liability on the line. They will work it out, and we will be racing in 120 kart events again. It’s all part of the cycle. Matt will be back behind the wheel again of something, when the economy turns and the construction market gets out of this cut throat situation we are in. It’s not a perfect world, and it’s simply just karting with friends on Sunday. And we to have made many life long friends that we would have never known had it not been for karting.

My suggestion at this time would be to talk with the track owners and get their opinions of the situation. You think they are happy? Not so much. Talk with other karting families and get to know them. Find out just how many think their family fortune is going to come by way of their kid karting. Talk to the shop owners, team owners, manufactures and tuners and find out how many of them are making tangible money.

It’s just karting.

Now for Wayne’s post. Please tell me what has changed over the past 5 years, or what you think you can change today.

Wayne MacGregor

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:21 pm
Posts: 67

I?ve been watching this forum over the past few weeks, and as usual for this time of year, the conversation is focused on what to do in the season ahead. Since I don?t have a ?vested? interest anymore (i.e. a kid I?m ?sponsoring?) and having been around the sport for over 5 years perhaps I can offer some “food for thought:”

At a macro level, I believe that karting continues to experience some significant problems. The ?national? karting business model (if there ever was one) is broken. True, Colorado has had success locally with the CSC racing series, but on a national level, participation is down overall except at a few key events. Statistics indicate that the average karter hangs it up after 3 seasons. Why? Let me offer some possible factors that the CSC may be well advised to take into consideration when setting up your ?05 competition season:

1. There are too many so-called national “sanctioning” bodies (IKF, WKA, SKUSA, STARS, TAGUSA etc etc), and if you don’t like the way these guys run things, a new one comes along about every couple of years. All are controlled by either internal politics, supplier economics or even worse by both. All too, are competing against each other for what is for a number of reasons, a limited number of participants.

If anyone thinks that these alphabet soup organizations have the best interest of karters at heart ? as an example, just look at the “wise” decisions SKUSA has made during the past three seasons. They?re trying to re-engineer themselves in ?05, but only time will tell if that is a ?success.? And always remember success to them, of course, is defined as ?increased revenue.? The message here is to be wary of whose ?club? you align yourselves to. Keep in mind that ?good ideas? can also be developed locally.

2. There are too many classes. Even the “little” CSC is proposing a total of 14 classes in 2005 which is far too many. This doesn’t “enhance” competition, it waters it down. Instead of designing new classes, karters should be coming up with innovative ways to enlarge the fields at races. Isn?t it more rewarding to finish 5th in a heat of 30 karts rather than 1st in a race with only two others?

Why must there always be extra classes for ?old,? or ?heavy? or every other possible permutation of personal and motor characteristics? Remember, you?re only racing for plastic trophies???.not an F1 seat. Think outside the box and come up with ways to run fewer heats with more karts.

3. Race days are way too long. It shouldn’t be getting dark when the final race is run, especially during the summer! Racing should be winding down by 3:00 in the afternoon, not 7:30 in the evening. Either pea-picking the preliminary grids or qualifying NASCAR (two laps and off) style would greatly reduce the time (usually the entire morning or more) needed to qualify and maybe get home before dark. Don?t hold up starting a race to wait for a competitor (no matter ?who? they are) ? If they cannot make the grid when it?s called, too bad ? that?s part of racing too.

4. The cost of karting is pretty much out of control at least in the ?top? classes. This is a grassroots sport, period. Success in karting does not and will not provide a magic ?ladder” to other forms of motorsports. ?Moving up? is something that simply cannot be done without big time financial backing. With that said, it is completely insane, in my opinion, to spend over $100,000 per year to run a shifter and yet it happens all the time. A lot more, if you’re going to “seriously” contend for one of the ?so-called? (wink, wink) national championships. A full sized car can be raced for that kind of money. Karters who can afford the dough won?t stick around very long when they do the math ? those who can?t are forced out of the sport.

5. The rules are too complicated. And, BTW, whose rules do you use? IKF, WKA, STARS, SKUSA? A little of each? Take some, modify some? Make up your own? Complicated rules encourage cheating and make tech extremely problematic and time consuming. The rules for the safety and health of competitors should be uncompromising and absolute. Fuel went unchecked in the CSC in 2004, for example. Doped fuel is a serious health issue, and is unfortunately, the easiest way to get enhanced performance. Competitors who knowingly add carcinogenic compounds to their fuel should face immediate suspension.

Mechanical rules should be as broad as possible, yet clear and just as uncompromising when violations are discovered. Ignorance should not be allowed as an excuse for rules violations.

And then there is the ?stability? factor. It seems everyone wants to ?tinker? with the rules every year. Why can?t there be stability for a fixed amount of time so that the karter doesn?t necessarily have to buy new ?stuff? on a yearly basis? The various class / rules structures are daunting enough for seasoned competitors. They are more than often totally incomprehensible to most newbies.

By all means written rules must be required. Tech inspections should be automatic for podium finishers ? DQs and/or suspensions should be handed out for violators with no exceptions what so ever.

6. Beware of ?new ideas? or formulas. Every time a ?new? concept comes along purporting to be the ?sliced bread? of karting, it seems to devolve into complication, added expense and contentiousness. Be especially wary when someone says that the ?new doodad? will control your costs. Remember these wonderful ?ideas? are coming from the fertile minds of those who will ultimately profit from them.

Example: ICC motors when first introduced, were ?sold? to karters as an affordable, reliable, fully developed alternative to the expensive, unreliable, modified moto engines because they didn?t have to be blueprinted to be competitive. Yeah right! Fast forward three years and now, if you don?t have a $7,000 Swedetech, Paul Leary, or ?fill in the blank? ?pro- built? ICC on your kart and a spare (or two) in the trailer, you can forget about being competitive.

TAG, a super idea when initiated, is supposed to offer an ?affordable? way to compete, but people (being human) can?t seem to leave well enough alone. If you look at other discussion boards, the TAG community is already showing the inevitable signs of division and fracture. In some venues, there are already limits on which motors are deemed ?acceptable.? Blueprinting is allowed in others (Norcal) and there is serious talk of completely excluding some motors such as 4-strokes. Don?t let this happen in the CSC. Buyers of a ?certain? engine package (Biland) should not be punished for inappropriate actions by the manufacturer, yet this is happening.

7. Sell your sport. Make race days more accommodating for spectators: After all, they are the primary source for new participants. Race days should be a pleasurable experience, not an ordeal. Good food, clean (dare I say ?real?) restrooms, shorter, smoother racing schedules, and other amenities would all help make race days a positive experience for them. Start by making admission free. I?ve seen an awful lot of U-turns at the money changer?s table. Get the spectators in the gate put on a good show and treat them ?right? when there. They?ll come back.

Finally as you move forward into 2005?.. Remember a ?reality? check: 99.9% of karters are hobbyists – The reason they race is for family, friendship, competition and fun. So don?t let decisions limit rather than enhance what you are really here for. Every single time rules, classes or other changes are proposed they should be designed to broaden competition rather than limiting it. More classes, excessively complicated rules and escalating costs are all limiting factors. Think about it?..none of these are really necessary to have more ?fun.?

You?ve got a good thing going. It would be a shame to screw it up.

As always, opinions expressed are my own……I’ll see you this year when I come to “visit” a race.

Wayne MacGregor

Hey Mike and Rick. I think I finally topped one of your long winded posts. Now I feel better.
Curt

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