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Here is a thought.
Before each CSC event, the track which the event will be running at has a club race with the exact track layout the weekend prior. I know I would have attended if that was the case. I would wager that these races would bring out more karts than a typical club race. :clap:
What does everyone think?
Also,does anyone know when a CSC meeting is going to happen? Will it be before the end of the year? Hopefully, it will be earlier than last year!
Tom
Tom,
Meetings for CSC will be posted well in advance of the season. With all that is occuring now I would say we’ll probably have a meeting sometime before 2005. Just a hunch, hang in there for the news…
I watched the mini max this year and as I stated before, it’s not on the same page as the animals with respect to cost or power……… I would like to see it be tested on the dyno and compair it to the animal. We have been in kart racing for 2 years now and had to buy a new engine package each year, that just doesn’t make any sense. If a new engine package is allowed our racing days are over…
Mike Edwards
Mike, I think the Mini Max was very comprable to the Animal. The really great thing about the Mini Max is when I go to the track I am usually running with trying to take care of the track so my daughter will check tire pressure lube her chain add fuel and push the button and away she goes. I have not done a single thing to it all year except change a few jets. It runs great and has not cost me a dime to maintain other than the fuel and oil, plus when she is ready to move into the Tag jr class I will jsut bolt it on another chassis remove the restrictors and away she will go. I dont see buying her another engine package for at least 5 years. How much do you think the animal guys will spend in the next 5 years ? anyone that would like to try one is welcome to come over to GJ and demo one anytime…
Mike, don’t give up yet. We didnt make the call to get rid of the Jr 2. This is all brainstorming ideas for the board, and the karters, to discuss.
What are you thinking? Do you want to stay with the animals, and continue with Junior 2?
I think we definitely need to figure something out to keep the numbers up in the classes. It would be nice if we could find a way to reduce the speeds in the Junior 1 class, so that a move to Junior 2 is actually a step up. I know that this could be hard to accomplish with some of the existing set ups in Junior 1. Somehow if we could go back to mandating a Cadet chassis, and maybe get rid of the open clutch rule – something to make the switch from Kid Kart to Junior 1 easier, too. Maybe the Junior 1 – Junior 2 division should be based on experience and not age, like novice and intermediate classes? Also, if the Mini Max had a class, like Stacey has suggested, it does not need to be scored with the Junior 1. Run them together, score them seperately, not taking any more track time, but allowing another option for parents. I agree that adding new engine packages all of the time is not good, but given the situation, the Mini Max is actually the more popular motor on a national level – and it might not be long before it outnumbered the Animals. It would be nice to offer the Mini Max driver, who can run nationally, a place to run in the state.Something else on the Mini Max, we would have actual rules to base ours on – either the Rotax Max challenge if it were a strictly Mini Max class, or the Cadet Tag class from SKUSA. Instead of the hodge podge rules we have to come up with for the “Junior 1 Animals on gas with no restictor” which seems to be a strange bird in national karting.
Just my 2 cents, keep brainstorming!!
I am waiting for someone to post their complete ideal line up of classes for 2005!angie
I’m not against the mini max racing with the juinor 1 and scored seperately, I understood that the mini max would be added to the class and eliminate the animals over time just like what happened to the flat heads……
The juinor 2 class has several issues as I see it. One being the weight of 265#. Most 12-15 year old kids will be way over the limit as Sydney is and be closer to 300# with kart, I keep telling here she is not over weight but she doen’t listen……..”I know that’s hard to believe.”
Second is the speed, If the kids come from the juinor 1 class as most due, there going slower. Maybe the motor rules should be opened up to allow a cam or carb change as a stepping stone to the limited mod class.
Mikey
Mike and Stacey,
“We can argue till we’re blue in the face,” :argue if the Animal and minimax are or are not comparable in preformance, but their corresponding websites for both engine manufacturers plainly shows that the Animal on gas at sea level produces:
8.0 Hp @ 5000rpm and 10 ft-lbs of torque @ 3500rpm while the MiniMax under the same condition produces:
13.4Hp @ 8500rpm and 9 ft-lbs of torque @ 7500rpm. This doesn’t look very similar to me….http://www.briggsracing.com/animalengine.html
http://www.rm1-kart.com/maxengines.html
Regarding the idea of running multiple classes together:
I do have one concern with running these potential “other” classes along side/within the “junior 1’s.” Some of this depends upon “if” and how many minimax’s actually race in the CSC races and “if” the idea of having a separate 80cc Comer class is formed and also gets to race along side the “Junior 1” class. Besides the HP difference which did change the outcome of a race this year at GJMS, what about the increase chance of wrecksaccidents? This alone could dramatically change and interfere with one of the other classes’ outcome.
Maybe if this idea of running multiple classes within the Junior 1 does occur we can somehow stagger their starting order to try and decrease the chance of effecting another classes’ outcome?Mike, I think the animal will be around for awhile. Sure the minimax has some advantages, but so does the animal. I know the animal is cheaper upfront and I believe that it has a similar if not cheaper operating cost over a season. And for many of us, upfront money is an issue. (Before you can hook and drag someone into this sport for the long haul you first have to get them to bite, but if the upfront cost are too high, you will never get that bite.)
For example engine refresh frequency between the animal and minimax: You can run an animal all season without refreshing it, in fact I talked to a dad who ran his for two years before refreshing it, but everything I have read and experienced seems to point to the fact that if you want to run up front and be competitive and stay competitive you have to spend a certain level of time and money, especially if your fellow competitors are doing it. So sure you can go one or even two years without refreshing your motor with either the animal or rotax, but it is my contention that if you want to stay up front consistently, you will have to refresh your motor more frequently no matter what type of motor it is.
As a dad who is contemplating on getting my two sons into karting next season these are my thoughts on the existing CSC classes and this thread. As a not-quite-yet-a-newbie, please forgive my ignorance.
Multiple engine packages lumped into a single class is making my head spin. To add to my confusion, there are certain modifications you are allowed to do to the engines!!! My preference would be a class with a single stock engine (sealed). That way everyone is competing on the same level. (I love how the classes are setup at CRE where every class, seemingly, has a singel stock engine and a single tire compound specified).
The prospect of ending up buying a new engine package every year is something that would make me stay away from karting. Mark, I feel your pain.
I love the Rotax concept of having a single engine package which can stay with you from Junior 1 (mini-max), to Junior TaG (Rotax Jr), and then Senior TaG (Rotax). But with getting two boys into karting, the upfront cost of two Rotax engine packages is not very appealing.
I would like to see a stock Comer 80 Junior 1 class. I believe this has been requested in this and/or other threads. This would be the class for my 8 year old .
Some posters have mentioned a novice jr tag class. Other posters have discussed the idea of not only using age to determine your class but also experience. To me, both proposals have a lot of merit since I have a 12 year old who will be new to karting.
Since the Jr 1 is already one of the larger classes and runs a good pace it seems to me that it should be left alone and attention should be given to the Jr 2 class. If the minimax truly has more than 50% greater HP than the animal perhaps it, along with other modifications to other engines should be allowed in the Jr 2 class. This would also help address the lack of progression that current exist going from Jr 1 to Jr 2. Have the Jr 1 run with the current crop of engines that seem to be less than 10 HP and allow Jr 2 to run new (minimax) or modified engines with, say, up to perhaps the 15 HP range. If the Jr Tag were limited to around 20 HP, Sr Tag to where they are today, then you have a nice progression that is adding about 50% more power with each step. Kids on a faster track can skip some of the progression. Am I missing something?
Magnus,
I’m in the same boat with you. I also have two sons (10 and 12 year olds) that want to get into karing next year. What class to place the 12 year old in is the challenge. There is talk that the Jr 2 class may not run next year and the Jr Tag is way too fast for a beginner. Either the current or faster Jr 2 class or a slower Jr Tag class would be very appealling.
I also think CRE has a great setup that takes alot of the confusion away. However, the CSC with it’s multiple venues is very attractive. In my best senario the CSC gets it’s class arrangements figured out this Fall with a solution for new 12 year olds and adds CRE and the Track at Centennial. I understand this ties up a lot of dates and will make it difficult for the tracks to have a full schedule of their own but it sure would be racer friendly. I, for one, would dedicate all my non CSC race weekends to a local track in support of their program.
It is not a matter of CRE being added to the CSC but a matter of CRE being willing the state series.
Don………Very well said. I agree that the safety issue is most important, If the minimax is included in the Juinor 1 class we very easily could have 18-20 karts at a CSC race, this in my opion is too many even at IMI. Maybe they do run with the Juinor 2 class and add some weight this would solve both problems.
For those who are thinking about karting, I have nothing but good things to say about the people and families that we have met, and would be glad to share what little I know with anyone………….!
Mike Edwards
You new karters with spinning heads should consider the restricted 80 shifter class for your 8-11 year olds, and formula 80 shifter for the 11-15 year olds.
We bought our package used from the Ray family 2 years ago and have sucessfully raced this machine to multiple track championships, national podiums, CSC podium every race this year and various non-race fun literally hundreds of times. It’s now for sale and can still win any race at any time in this state.
Our annual budget is under $2,500.00!!! This includes tires, top ends, fuel entry fees… We are not cheap, just another hard working family trying to spend time with the boys.
The thought of shifters costing way tooooo much to run is coming from a few ICC teams that insist on running rich motors on race day and pushing the RPM’s above the desiged max.
As the TAG class continues to grow, podiums will continue to shrink and protests will continue to grow.
Consider stepping over to the wild side and test drive a shifter. There are several cheap packages currently in the classified. Look at Dave Roberts post, then go see his equipment and compare what you can get for a buck. We may even consider his stuff if we go 80 again next year.
As far as test drives, we will be offering test drives for serious buyers after the Supernats in November sometime.
Need more shifter info, call me anytime.
Curt Kistler
303-901-2984I agree with Don. Everything I have seen on the minimax vs. a WKA animal (emphasis added) shows about 30% extra horsepower for the minimax at sea level. Given that Junior 1 is already crowded (we had 11 karts last sunday which is still a large field so late in the season) and junior 2 isn’t, why not run a separate minimax class with junior 2? [/b][/i][/u]
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